The Biggest Problem With LinkSpun (and the solution)

[Relentless]

Right now when two people agree on a trade it doesn't tell either one they should post their links first, or when to post them, or consequences if they do not post them. As a result lots of trades get approved and then just sit there without being consummated.

Instead...

When someone approves a trade it should show a large font confirmation page saying "You Have Now Approved The Trade. Since You Approved It, It Is Now Your Responsibility To Post The Active Link On Your Site First. Failure To Post An Active Link Within 72 Hours Can Result In Having Your Account Suspended. Repeated Failures Will Result In Account Bans."

Likewise..

Once the approving party does post and verify their link is up, the other side of the trade should be notified in a similar way. "The Trade You Requested Has Been Approved And [Username] Has Posted The Active Links That You Requested. You Are Now Responsible To Post The Promised Return Link(s) Within 72 Hours From This Notification. Failure To Post An Active Link Within 72 Hours Can Result In Having Your Account Suspended. Repeated Failures Will Result In Account Bans."

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That will get people to only request a trade or accept a trade if they intend to actually get a link up in the next 3 days. If someone cant get a link up in 3 days, they should not request a trade, should not approve a trade... or frankly, should not be a webmaster for a living.

[drocd]

Relentless, I like all of your suggestions on here and I thank you for taking the time to make them. I'm sure jdoughs has been taking notes of all the suggestions and has plans to implement everything that will improve the site.

[123anddone]

i don't agree with that 3 days, if i start weekend on Tuesday so on Monday my account will be terminated ? wake up, if i go on vacation for a week or more so my account is banned ?

there is not solution to this people are lazy and they are adding link not as fast as we expect,

i think is to make some kind of reputation system, that would automatically count reputation form 1 to 10 by active trades. and in search list users have rep number and you see how fast the trade will be done.
example by the top user is rep#10 10% less of trades rep#9 and so on or something similar.

that's what i think,


banning users from link trading system is silly, when adult is not that big as mainstream.

you can block that user from making requests but ban no way.

[inkognito]

@123anddone

If you are not able to setup links then don't click Accept button.
Leave it as pending.

I don't like people when accept trades and than I need to wait for him few weeks (or mounts) to setup link(s).

[Relentless]

@123anddone
If you are not able to setup links then don't click Accept button.
Leave it as pending. I don't like people when accept trades and than I need to wait for him few weeks (or mounts) to setup link(s).

Exactly.

Nobody gets banned for being offered a trade. When you ACCEPT a trade you are saying 'Yes Im ready to get the links up in the next 3 days' - otherwise you just leave it pending until you are back to work.

When a link is pending I don't add links... once it gets accepted I put links up right away. That means too often I have links up for 2-3 weeks before someone gets around to linking back, or I have to remove the links which is a lot of extra work. If you offer to trade with someone or accept a trade from someone be ready to add your links within 3 days. If you can't, don't make any offers or accept any deals. That seems very fair and straightforward to me...

And by the way... 90% of the reason Thunder-ball failed is because they failed to ban people. Banning people from a link trading system is a fantastic idea. 75% of the trades will happen with a small fraction of the people who sign-up. That small fraction will leave quickly if the place gets overrun by people who fail to complete trades they accept.

That's my 2 cents

[123anddone]

btw, when i accept trade it takes more then few days for other user to accept it so if i accepted it today and other user will agree only after week and i will be on vacation after week so i will get banned?

dude don't think only about your self, not all other users are working that hard as you do.

i don't see any logic in banning users, you can add then to block list or something but to ban him sounds unfair.

[jdoughs]

btw, when i accept trade it takes more then few days for other user to accept it so if i accepted it today and other user will agree only after week and i will be on vacation after week so i will get banned?

dude don't think only about your self, not all other users are working that hard as you do.

i don't see any logic in banning users, you can add then to block list or something but to ban him sounds unfair.

The situation that causes problems isn't when the trades sit in 'request' status, its when they sit in Set Up Links status for weeks, after you've added links.

If I agree with you to trade, and you agree, it shouldn't take either of us any time to add links. This is once both sides have accepted and links have started to go live. There is no real reason to be repeatedly, leaving users to wait.

What I propose is this.

Request Trade - Trade requests stay active for 14 days when sent out, when a response is made, timer is reset for 14 days. Any request that has not been answered for 14 days gets declined and removed from your admin.

Set Up Trades - Once both parties agree to link trade, you are obligated to add your links promptly (you SHOULD add them as soon as you see its in Set Up Trade, that isn't Maybe Set Up Trade). Any trade that sits in Set Up Trades for 7 days from time of acceptance should be set to Link Errors, with an alert, saying to remove links. (User did NOT add links, a Report has been sent to administrator).

This gives a full week from the time you make an agreement to add the links, this is more then reasonable, and if we have continuing reports from one user, I can take action based on him not living up to his own agreements on link trades.

Personally, I won't trade with someone who repeatedly makes me look at my links live everyday with his end of the bargain sitting idle, while he logs in and makes more trades. It's just not right.

Anyways, I'm on this, and we will weed out these guys who do not want to add their links.

[Relentless]

With all due respect....

14 days and 7 days are way too long.
7 days and 3 days are much more reasonable timers.

Also another solid idea...
Lock the system once someone has an idle trade

in other words. If I accepta trade, and it has been more than 3 days without me adding the links ai promised, don't allow me to find new trades, request new trades, or accept any other trade offers until my idle trade is completed and my links are live.

That stops someone from stalling multiple webmasters AND if they really are away for a week they won't mind not being able to initiate or accept any more trades until they come back and complete the one they already approved.

I think that is an excellent compromise.

[drocd]

Also another solid idea...
Lock the system once someone has an idle trade

I think this is a good idea. If someone has X number of trades in setup that are Y days old, show them an error message and do not allow them to request new trades.

[123anddone]

i agree with that lock, but 7 and 3 days are too short, too fat seo in not good for Google ranking.

[123anddone]

and also add warning in pending trades and all other that they will expire in #of days, i mean highlighted in some color that would take attention.

[Relentless]

and also add warning in pending trades and all other that they will expire in #of days, i mean highlighted in some color that would take attention.

I agree with that for sure

[Arnoxxx]

I think a week to add your link is perfect, anything over that is a bit of a joke (I've had a trade sitting there for almost 3 weeks now).

Good work thus far though, keep it up.

[Relentless]

So it seems there is some agreement that webmasters should have 7 days to add links on trades that they have approved... and after the 7 days the LinkSpun system should automatically lock with a message telling them that they can not make other trades or do anything else until they finish their existing trades by creating all the links.

That along with a bright red warning message at the top of all pages saying 'You have X trades ready and need to add your links - please click here'

Should be perfect...

[123anddone]

So it seems there is some agreement that webmasters should have 7 days to add links on trades that they have approved... and after the 7 days the LinkSpun system should automatically lock with a message telling them that they can not make other trades or do anything else until they finish their existing trades by creating all the links.

That along with a bright red warning message at the top of all pages saying 'You have X trades ready and need to add your links - please click here'

Should be perfect...

also this lock should be with removed links, if someone is removed links he/she can't do anything until that link is added.

[jdoughs]

I think this all makes a lot of sense, give us a little time to get this rolling and we'll test out the functionality of it

[darksoul]

also this lock should be with removed links, if someone is removed links he/she can't do anything until that link is added.

Get serious. Nobody has to keep your links up forever. Just remove their links as well and be done with it.

[Relentless]

also this lock should be with removed links, if someone is removed links he/she can't do anything until that link is added.

Get serious. Nobody has to keep your links up forever. Just remove their links as well and be done with it.

People who drop links without notifying the other trader should be reported to admin. If it happens once or twice its not a big deal... if the same user is doing it to a lot of people they should be banned from LS...

[darksoul]

also this lock should be with removed links, if someone is removed links he/she can't do anything until that link is added.

Get serious. Nobody has to keep your links up forever. Just remove their links as well and be done with it.

People who drop links without notifying the other trader should be reported to admin. If it happens once or twice its not a big deal... if the same user is doing it to a lot of people they should be banned from LS...

You are actually notified by the system. So what are you complaining about ?
Isn't this the whole reason you use a tracking system in the first place ?

[whitey]

With all due respect....

14 days and 7 days are way too long.
7 days and 3 days are much more reasonable timers.

Also another solid idea...
Lock the system once someone has an idle trade

in other words. If I accepta trade, and it has been more than 3 days without me adding the links ai promised, don't allow me to find new trades, request new trades, or accept any other trade offers until my idle trade is completed and my links are live.

That stops someone from stalling multiple webmasters AND if they really are away for a week they won't mind not being able to initiate or accept any more trades until they come back and complete the one they already approved.

I think that is an excellent compromise.

Lots of problems with this.

1. Sometimes it takes time for someone to get back to agree on a trade prior to entering link set up. If I approve a trade, am out of town when someone accepts it, and it goes to link set up, I should not be banned for that person taking two weeks to confirm it.

2. I have a situation right now with a link setting in link set up in which my link was on a free blog service that has shut down. He proposed the link, I countered, he accepted 12 days later, and by that time seductiveblogs.com was down for the count. I have sent three messages to him with no reply. So, I will be banned for that?

Link trading is an art. I long ago gave up trading with people who use LO and set everything automatically without review because routing problems can cause a link not to be reached by LO. So many people use that script to automatically drop the link that I was going through and emailing, emailing again, and finally had to drop the link which is hardcoded on all my site (for good reason). I just quit trading with those who are try to use a tool, that is otherwise a good tool, to take all of the work out of webmastering.

If someone is taking too much time, from your perspective, to return links. Document it and do not trade with them. Implementing a banning feature, to make things easier, will cause all kinds of unintended consequences and likely send people who are willing to spend time trading links back to the boards for link exchanges.

Noting, I mean noting, bothers me so much in over a decade of webmastering as attempting to automate judgment, particularly with a ban.

[whitey]

I think this all makes a lot of sense, give us a little time to get this rolling and we'll test out the functionality of it

Wow.

Seriously, another good tool is going to be ruined because people do not want to work hard at webmastering.

The unitended consequences will frustrate many honest users.

Seriously, it is really not hard to simply not trade with people who jerk people around. I personally, never risk my rep on any system with arbitrary ban features. Some people suck; that is easy to deal with. Shit happens; that is not so easy to deal with. So, we are going to take the thing that is easy to deal with and dump the shat on the situations that are not easy to deal with?

Bad decision, all around, IMO. Better to simply trade with people you know, through boards and emails than spend time dealing with the consequences of a bad week.

[jdoughs]

I think this all makes a lot of sense, give us a little time to get this rolling and we'll test out the functionality of it

Wow.

Seriously, another good tool is going to be ruined because people do not want to work hard at webmastering.

The unitended consequences will frustrate many honest users.

Seriously, it is really not hard to simply not trade with people who jerk people around. I personally, never risk my rep on any system with arbitrary ban features. Some people suck; that is easy to deal with. Shit happens; that is not so easy to deal with. So, we are going to take the thing that is easy to deal with and dump the shat on the situations that are not easy to deal with?

Bad decision, all around, IMO. Better to simply trade with people you know, through boards and emails than spend time dealing with the consequences of a bad week.

This isn't about banning people, at least thats not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about having a request page, and Set Up Trades page cluttered full of 80 trades that the other user has no intention of adding.

The bottom line is we need to remove those long standing, unanswered trades so they dont clutter up the complete system, for absolutely no reason at all.

Refusing people to trade, or take there time is not what we are talking about.

And about the time restraints, and shit happening, I agree, but If me and you made a agreement to add links today, and you added mine and I didn't respond to you for 3 weeks to a month, you'd consider our deal to be void, and I'd be expecting my links to come down anytime.

Right now, our system doesn't allow this to happen.

That is going to lose us more numbers then deleting month old requests/trades where the other user has not responded.

[whitey]

I think this all makes a lot of sense, give us a little time to get this rolling and we'll test out the functionality of it

Wow.

Seriously, another good tool is going to be ruined because people do not want to work hard at webmastering.

The unitended consequences will frustrate many honest users.

Seriously, it is really not hard to simply not trade with people who jerk people around. I personally, never risk my rep on any system with arbitrary ban features. Some people suck; that is easy to deal with. Shit happens; that is not so easy to deal with. So, we are going to take the thing that is easy to deal with and dump the shat on the situations that are not easy to deal with?

Bad decision, all around, IMO. Better to simply trade with people you know, through boards and emails than spend time dealing with the consequences of a bad week.

This isn't about banning people, at least thats not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about having a request page, and Set Up Trades page cluttered full of 80 trades that the other user has no intention of adding.

The bottom line is we need to remove those long standing, unanswered trades so they dont clutter up the complete system, for absolutely no reason at all.

Refusing people to trade, or take there time is not what we are talking about.

And about the time restraints, and shit happening, I agree, but If me and you made a agreement to add links today, and you added mine and I didn't respond to you for 3 weeks to a month, you'd consider our deal to be void, and I'd be expecting my links to come down anytime.

Right now, our system doesn't allow this to happen.

That is going to lose us more numbers then deleting month old requests/trades where the other user has not responded.

Thanks, J.

I guess I misunderstood.

I do agre that people not adding links for weeks, as in plural, is a very serious situation.

Personally, my week is very organized and I review links about every 5 days. If it is a holiday that intervenes, that is likely 10-12 days. I have never had a problem with this and most often am the first to add links on other systems (I have over 300 trades at TB with not one blocked request).

If it is simply dropping those trades, which TB allows the user to do and I have done in the past (while adding a block to their account), I have no problem. But, those of us who are very careful about our online reputation rarely like the prospect of a the "ban" word executed on automation without judgement. If someone does not like my schedule, so be it. But to be banned because we differ in work styles and priorities is an issue I think.

Regardless, you have clarified it for me - more necessary because I did not carefully read your previous post detailing the exact process; My Bad, sorry.

[jdoughs]

No need for an apology, I never really said how we planned to do it yet, it was one of those things that takes lots of careful thought to implement.

One thing for certain I would never automate any type of policing.

I've saw too many times where that road leads..lol

[whitey]

No need for an apology, I never really said how we planned to do it yet, it was one of those things that takes lots of careful thought to implement.

One thing for certain I would never automate any type of policing.

I've saw too many times where that road leads..lol

Thanks...

And to Relentless...

Nothing personal, man. I am not saying that you don't work hard or are not dedicated, just that automatation of things that should often take judgement are often used incorrectly by those not so dedicated as yourself...I am well aware how dedicated you are...lol.

[Relentless]

And to Relentless...
Nothing personal, man. I am not saying that you don't work hard or are not dedicated, just that automatation of things that should often take judgement are often used incorrectly by those not so dedicated as yourself...I am well aware how dedicated you are...lol.

I don't take it that way at all... and my effort level speaks for itself anyhow heh.

My main point is when someone takes 2 or 3 weeks to put links up, they should be locked out until the links actually go up. I think you'd agree with that. That's the way to stop the same asshat from making bogus trade after bogus trade with dozens of webmasters and counting on people to just leave a few of them up. If they cant do anything else until they add their trades as promised... they either add their trades as they should have based on their agreement... or they essentially ban themselves with no admin needed to do it for them.

[vrocks]

Alright.. Time for me to out some people since they neglected to include any contact information in their profile where I could have done this privately..

HomerSimpson -> 9 days
123anddone -> 9 days
diabloawm -> 10 days

Perhaps setup trades can have a comma too so these people know that the trade is waiting on them and not me.

[inkognito]

123anddone -> 11 days

for me.. im not sure did he have time, or what, but i dropped him few comment, he never respond

now link is up