The Internet Blacklist

[Tabarnak69]

The Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-seg ... 39836.html

Regardless if my work is ethical or not and regardless if my work is considered art or obscenity. I will always stand solid on the side of freedom of speech/expression. To this extent I find it disgusting on how so many Internet sites have turned copyright infringement and theft into a free speech issue.

Freedom of speech/expression has NOTHING to do with copyright infringement/theft. Freedom of speech/expression is about protecting unpopular opinion, commentary and the ability for one person to call another person's garbage a work of art and vice-versa.

Someone downloading and uploading the masturbation material I make has NOTHING to do with freedom of speech. Because it's me that makes this content available and it's me that controls the distribution of it and it's only me that has the right to do those things. Whereas it's the right of people to be able to view the material I make and decide for themselves if they agree with it or not.

But not just the pirates of the Internet that have muddled this issue for their own profit and gain. But the biggest multi-national sites on the Internet depend on copyright infringment/theft to make money and they're the main driving force and money behind stoping any attempt to combat copyright infringement/theft.

Google has never asked me once if I want them to index my photos or cache a copy of my blog in their system. They just went ahead and did it! I'm not saying they don't provide a service but when you think about it, Google would be nobody if it wasn't for people like us that make the content. To top it off in return they pretty much dictate how we can or can not interface with them while they remain this mostly uncontactable entity that could care less about the little guys that they forced to depend on them.

I'm probably just ranting because someone emailed me a letter demanding I sign an online petition to stop COICA because somehow it threatens my business. But to be honest I'm at the point where I'll gladly accept the risk of a possible censorship battle in the future to put down the pirates of today.

[CodeR70]

And many say that porn sites have nothing to do with freedom of speech or freedom of expression. Dont get me wrong, I completely understand and agree with some what you are saying. But I think you should consider "speech" as a lot more then just opinions or expressions.

Currently TPB is blocked here by many providers in the Netherlands based on a court ruling. I don't care that much about TPB but I do care about the fact that somebody is telling me which sites I can and cannot visit, despite of its content. If you have a problem with a certain site then go to court and get the site down or its content removed. Why should my provider be involved with that? Why should my provider police the internet? But more important, why is somebody determine for me what I can and cannot see?

[Tabarnak69]

Currently TPB is blocked here by many providers in the Netherlands based on a court ruling. I don't care that much about TPB but I do care about the fact that somebody is telling me which sites I can and cannot visit, despite of its content. If you have a problem with a certain site then go to court and get the site down or its content removed. Why should my provider be involved with that? Why should my provider police the internet? But more important, why is somebody determine for me what I can and cannot see?

I have nothing against TPB as long as they play fair. As it stands they are making money from my product and I get nothing in return for it. Even worse is they take control of the distribution and replication out of my hands and flood the market place which lowers the value of my product. And they justify it by hiding behind "Freedom of Speech/Expression."

I used to sell between 600 to 1000 units of a video and get around 20$ to 30$ each unit. At those numbers I produced less videos, made a much higher quality product and I employed several people regularly. But since people like TPB arrived, I have to do my own lighting, editing, no more locations I film in my home and I find myself embarrased trying to hire a women to work. Because of how little I'm forced to pay her. (I'm offering 1/3 of what I used to pay a girl)

I agree that you have the right to see what you want to see. But no one has the right to witness a crime in progress and do nothing about it. (Or worst, profit from it) And that's exactly what's happening with most piracy. The marjority of people know that what they're getting for free is hurting the ability of others to pay bills, buy food and live indoors. But they download the stuff anyway and that's not freedom of speech at all. If you witnessed one man robbing another man the law demands that you do something to stop it unless your life was in danger... Not walk over and ask the crook for a share of the money.

It's basic good samaritan laws as spelled out in international codes and it's basic logic; "The rights of one individual stops when it infringes on the rights of another indivudal." IE: My right to food and shelter take priority over your right to visit a site.

Porn is about freedom of speech/expression because the act of sex is highly politicised and subject to debate and interpretation by the individual. Furthermore it's mature consenting adults creating a product that does not infringe upon the rights of anyone else. Just as no one is forced to be in a porn movie.. No one is equally forced to view the product.

In contrast the pirate bay does exploit non consenting people and that being the producers of various content.

[CodeR70]

In contrast the pirate bay does exploit non consenting people and that being the producers of various content.

So, get the site down then! The site is live but I'm not allowed to see it. I cant even check if some content of mine is shared there. And what my provider has anything to do with it is a mystery to me.

I dont want anybody else then a judge to get a site down. If others have anything do with it then it's just censorship. And in that case the content itself does not really matter.

If there is a site offering CP, what you wanna have done to it? Keep the site alive but just block access (but still accessible by a million of proxies) or have the site down and the people responsible for it hanging at their necks on the highest tree we have on this earth?

[vrocks]

I'd like to see the list in action. Maybe we can get spankwire.com added to it?

[Tabarnak69]

In contrast the pirate bay does exploit non consenting people and that being the producers of various content.

So, get the site down then! The site is live but I'm not allowed to see it. I cant even check if some content of mine is shared there. And what my provider has anything to do with it is a mystery to me.

I dont want anybody else then a judge to get a site down. If others have anything do with it then it's just censorship. And in that case the content itself does not really matter.

If there is a site offering CP, what you wanna have done to it? Keep the site alive but just block access (but still accessible by a million of proxies) or have the site down and the people responsible for it hanging at their necks on the highest tree we have on this earth?

Millions and billions and zillions of proxies. That's an empty threat because the average person doesn't know how to make a proxy work.

The pirate bay plays a game of hide and seek. So shutting them down is hard if not impossible and unless you're willing to accept an universal policing authority.... Then blocking the site works much better. Plus blocking the site stops the creep who witnesses a crime in progress from picking vicitim's pocket.

On the note of the Pirate bay...

Has anyone here really done any research on who and what these self-proclaimed freedom of speech/expression fighters are really about??? They're neo-nazis and support dozens of hate groups and facist political parties. Unfortunately they're damn good at hidding it.

I'd like to see the list in action. Maybe we can get spankwire.com added to it?

Never heard of them but I'm guessing they steal.

[CodeR70]

Millions and billions and zillions of proxies. That's an empty threat because the average person doesn't know how to make a proxy work.

Of course they do. It's just a simple as using a BitTorrent client. And if not, I would be happy to explain it to them in case they wanna have access to your porn site if it's going to be blocked in the future.

The pirate bay plays a game of hide and seek. So shutting them down is hard if not impossible and unless you're willing to accept an universal policing authority.... Then blocking the site works much better. Plus blocking the site stops the creep who witnesses a crime in progress from picking vicitim's pocket.

Again, many people think the same of you with your porn sites and it doesn't take much molding of a court ruling to have your site behind a block/filter or whatever. What are you telling your kids then when daddy cant make money?

Simple, if the site is illegal then it has to come down and people responsible need to be punished. If it's not illegal then I want access to it.

[vrocks]

I think a much better way is to go after the sites operators the same way you would go after any other business.

If the top level guy at BofA is caught money laundering the BofA banks throughout the USA don't get shuttered. He gets dealt with and goes to jail...

If BofA was to engage in massive bank fraud then they would be shuttered while the gov't investigates them. If a mom and pop liquor store sells alcohol to a decoy minor in a sting operation it can end up losing its license to sell alcohol and the person selling the alcohol can go to jail...

The problem is that the Internet spans many different jurisdictions. You can't throw the owners of The Pirate Bay in jail if they are living in a non-extradition treaty county. You can't close them down if they can use a TLD in one of those countries that doesn't care. But the owners of sites that are getting screwed can send an assassin... And they are so underrated these days... Especially in counties with non-extradition treaties!

[vrocks]

Another thought...

I wouldn't mind having America restrict all Internet traffic so that their citizens cannot access IP's from outside of a consortium. And... Nobody from an IP outside of the consortium can get in. This consortium would be made up of countries that agree to set of laws to govern Internet usage. Anyone caught aiding or abetting somebody would suffer the same punishment human smuggling laws have. It would be like crossing the boarder without a passport.

Then these lists would actually work... You couldn't even use proxies to get around it because they would be restricted at the IP level... You try to use a Chinese proxy and it wouldn't work. They use a Canadian proxy to gain access to an American site and the cops show up at the proxy location and shut it down, then look into prosecuting the owner.

Sure it sounds draconian... but theft would go way down and it would be like 2002 all over again!

[Tabarnak69]

Of course they do. It's just a simple as using a BitTorrent client. And if not, I would be happy to explain it to them in case they wanna have access to your porn site if it's going to be blocked in the future.

No they don't... They don't at all. I'm probably one of the few old school pornographers that still deal directly with the public and the majority don't know where to even begin looking to enable a proxy. In fact it's increasingly becoming obvious that unless their cell phone or tablette comes configured to do something for them, they are quite content to NOT go looking.

So the majority of people that understand how to enable a proxy tend to be under 20 years of age and are "hard core" addicts to the Internet. To be honest they're not my worry... it's the 30 something or older male that just wants a quick masturbation fix that I'm worried about. Because he isn't going to spend 30 minutes looking for a proxy or spending money on a website that offers the service.

Again, many people think the same of you with your porn sites and it doesn't take much molding of a court ruling to have your site behind a block/filter or whatever. What are you telling your kids then when daddy cant make money?

Porn occupies the same place as cigarettes, alcohol and guns. In fact if it was left to me Porn site access could not be accessed unless someone actually walked into an actual store and purchased an access code.


To this extent I work within the parameters of my society and my community. I don't film women under the age of 18. (actually I don't film anyone less than 25) There are no drugs on my set and if I think a anyone is present on my set is being pressured to do the job... I shut down the set. Again mature consenting adult.

The pirate bay is NOT about mature consenting adults working together to make an explicit film. The pirate bay is about several people making money by helping others infringe upon copyrights. You can't compare porn to pirate bay... the two are completely unrelated.

The problem is that the Internet spans many different jurisdictions. You can't throw the owners of The Pirate Bay in jail if they are living in a non-extradition treaty county. You can't close them down if they can use a TLD in one of those countries that doesn't care. But the owners of sites that are getting screwed can send an assassin... And they are so underrated these days... Especially in counties with non-extradition treaties!

Well.... you know I've often wished bad luck on nazi crooks. Let's just say that if someone did get angry enough to have them "taken care of" that I wouldn't shed a tear

Another thought...

I wouldn't mind having America restrict all Internet traffic so that their citizens cannot access IP's from outside of a consortium. And... Nobody from an IP outside of the consortium can get in. This consortium would be made up of countries that agree to set of laws to govern Internet usage. Anyone caught aiding or abetting somebody would suffer the same punishment human smuggling laws have. It would be like crossing the boarder without a passport.

Then these lists would actually work... You couldn't even use proxies to get around it because they would be restricted at the IP level... You try to use a Chinese proxy and it wouldn't work. They use a Canadian proxy to gain access to an American site and the cops show up at the proxy location and shut it down, then look into prosecuting the owner.

Sure it sounds draconian... but theft would go way down and it would be like 2002 all over again!

Personally...
I would completly support the idea of a Intranet. It should be only the people of my nation that can access my content. That way there's no way to evade a criminal processes.

[CodeR70]

I dont want any government or some kind of organization responsible for the internet and what can and cannot be showed. I like the idea of an internet as it was a long time ago (anarchy for the most part). But, I do value the law so sites that don't obey the law can be brought down. The law is the only thing we can trust in. And if we don't agree, then we can only change the laws.

Listen, I think we all want the same here. We want to earn a living for ourselves and our loved ones. It ridiculous that people think that everything has to be free and that our hard work is there for them to get for free. Its even worse if others make money of that.

But I just don't see why we have to use all kinds of tricks to have that done. Is the site illegal? Why can it not be taken down? That is the biggest problem.

Owwww, and one last remark. The "creep" that visit TPB may even be your potential clients. I wouldn't be calling ignorant people creeps that easily. But then again, I don't know what happens on TPB… because I do not have access. Maybe they are all honest and good people there. Maybe they exchange recipes… or fluffy stuffed animals… I don't know… I don't have access. Somebody determined for me that I'm not allowed to visit the site!!!!

[CodeR70]

Personally...
I would completly support the idea of a Intranet. It should be only the people of my nation that can access my content. That way there's no way to evade a criminal processes.

I think you are a major idiot!

(I hope you can appreciate my freedom of speech, although I am aware that LS is not a public platform)

[Tabarnak69]

Owwww, and one last remark. The "creep" that visit TPB may even be your potential clients. I wouldn't be calling ignorant people creeps that easily. But then again, I don't know what happens on TPB… because I do not have access. Maybe they are all honest and good people there. Maybe they exchange recipes… or fluffy stuffed animals… I don't know… I don't have access. Somebody determined for me that I'm not allowed to visit the site!!!!

We're not even fighting for nickles and dimes today because we're fighthing for pennies. Contrast that to 20-30 years ago when we were making dollars.

That "creep" that visits the pirate bay is not a potential client and I don't want him as a client. Because what he's doing is first checking to see if he can find my product for free. He might only purchase from me if he can't find it for free. Unfortunately if I sell to him I run the risk that he's going to rip my video and upload it to the pirate bay.

As for governement control over the Internet.
It's always has been controled by the gouvernement. This entire thing was first a United States defense project and that was later implimented for CERN research. The gouvernements involved simply "looked the other way" so that it could grow. And now that growth period is ending and they're now starting to exert their "long-held-but-seldom-used" power over it.

The Internet will not bring you democracy... It won't make you rich.... And it sure is hell isn't about freedom of speech/expression.

If you want democracy you take it to the streets.
If you want to be rich you need to fuck someone else over.
If you want freedom of speech you get a photocopier and hand physically hand out leaflets.

I think you are a major idiot!

(I hope you can appreciate my freedom of speech, although I am aware that LS is not a public platform)

I've been called worse and most often to my face. So what's the weather like in your part of the world?